leds flicker when water heater runs

G Come join the discussion about tools, projects, builds, styles, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! LED 2 circuit flickers regardless if 1 is on. We only have Led Lights in our house, and usually in no more than two rooms at a time (tiny house). I need to figure out a solution to this. We recently moved into a new house and have experienced occasional flickering of the lights. We save a great deal comparing propane cost to original electrical cost. No harmonics. Alternative ways to code something like a table within a table? 18KW is a 75 amp load at 240volts , which is a HUGE addition in draw for a very small house. Any help would be appreciated. If those are mains leds, try them in a desktop lamp. It is due to the way cheap LED bulb power supplies work. Tankless hot water heater flickering the lights. But the lights dimming is definitely new. Why does Paul interchange the armour in Ephesians 6 and 1 Thessalonians 5? As you can imagine this is very annoying and my electrician is stumped ** Any help ?!? If one or a few lights flicker while the rest do not then its probably an issue limited to an individual circuit or the LED fixtures themselves. I overpaid the IRS. Question ishow close is too close to put a light fixture next to the smoke detector? When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Im adding another light fixture and centering the lights in the room. Voltage Drop The higher electrical demand of the heating appliance causes the voltage to drop across the wires supplying power. I've contacted the power company an an electrician to come out next week, but any other ideas? Your pump should not start every time you turn the water on and off. That's why I still use them. -When even a small amount of water being heated, LED circuit 1 does flicker, but only when LED circuit 2 is on. How can I drop 15 V down to 3.7 V to drive a motor? This leaves power connected to the "off" core via the capacitance between the cores for the whole length of the cable, and you can see half the supply voltage via several hundred pF, capable of sourcing tens of microamps. Hoping we just got a bad batch of LEDs. 25 amps vs 125 amps. Why your house lights may flicker when a dishwasher runs, Lights Dimming with Microwave On? suggestions. Jumping the electrical usage to 150 amps on a 200 amp panel does not compute. Momentary light flicker from starting powerful appliances or tools is usually not a concern. Unexpected results of `texdef` with command defined in "book.cls". Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. (I have a feeling this is the issue) -The high hats are dimmable with dimmers that I have paired with the same high hats in the past with no flashing issues. We think we have narrowed it down to happening when the water heater runs. The two things share voltage and ground. AFAIK those heaters are pretty simple and cycle elements on/off to maintain temp instead of using a faster PWM - no way around the source of the problem - maybe a tank heater? While high-quality bulbs will be more expensive, they will last longer and are less likely to cause issues like flickers. Normal, branded lamps I've tried all had a constant current driver IC and were not affected by a voltage fluctuations. The old kind that make LEDs flicker. check out the. Can you use JustAnswer-Q&A 4.74K subscribers Subscribe 7. Similarly, they could put fewer diodes in series resulting in more headroom between the forward voltage and the rectified line voltage (and more dissipated across the resistor/regulator), but this is a nonisolated design - everything is attached to mains voltage, so by regulation it cannot have any exposed metal heatsinking. If the capacitor were very large, or some kind of regulation were present in the circuit, this would not happen, but that would be much more expensive so you don't see it in cheap products. Cookie Notice However, our recording voltmeters almost always show that the problem lies elsewhere, PEC Regional Operations Manager Kyle Hahn said. Searching the plumbing forum will bring a lot of references to water logged tanks. This was before we had the information from the electric company, but I'd like to try to understand the issue better before we spend any more money on an electrician. HVAC, water heater, etc flipping on or off and injecting noise into the power lines. -Electrical- 125A subpanel to basement, then short 12-foot run to 2nd floor master. Hopefully your heating system isn't also electric. By this I mean a quick, almost unnoticable flicker every minute or so and not just when it initially kicks in. They contain scalding water that is under pressure, which can spray from the pressure-relief valve, putting nearby individuals at risk of burns. Local amendments may apply. CFLs have a certain amount of persistence, so you may not notice a momentary (100ms) power dip while you would with a LED. Many homes have light switches that control multiple bulbs at once. #1. Because leds do not act the same way for dimming, Led rated dimmers and dimmer rated led bulbs. Have an electrician check and confirm that the wire connections at the breaker or water heater are tight and firm. Put an incandescent lamp in one of the lamp holders on that same circuit. Without heatsinking, dissipated power must be kept to an absolute minimum as there is little ability to get heat out. Have a hard wired Smoke detector in laundry room with a light fixture about 2 feet away. Try switching to special dimmable LED bulbs or replacing the switch. Why the hell would anyone think its a good idea to remove a 4.5kw storage tank water heater and replace it with a tankless heater thats requires 3-40 amp circuits. My best guess is you've got a bad connection or other resistance in the wiring (maybe oxidation on switch contact etc) the comment to change bulb position(s) or feedback on trying this would help rule out the bulb itself. -Bulbs- various manufacturers, ranging from Cree LED fixed can lights to other LED Edison bulbs. That's why putting in an incandescent bulb sometimes restores more correct operation. 1,667. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. You are correct, we are on a well.. so this is normal? With only a total of 48 amps load on the panel the lights would still flicker. Why does this happen? This often happens in. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The power draw of the tankless water heater can be substantial. I have a propane tankless and would never have considered an electric. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Unlike our ac compressor in the Summer, where it one consistent thing at the beginning, this kind of wavers. Incandescent chandelier. (Why only half? Has anyone ran into this before? If the elements would come on and stay on the lights would blink on startup, then be fine. I just measured our drop service cable and it looks like it's for 150 amps (judging by this chart here: Why am I getting hum and lights dimming with a new electric tankless water heater? A slight disturbance in the input voltage/current will cause the LEDs to flicker. This works great as long as the mains voltage is perfectly stable. Are they more prone to electrical wiring issues? Perhaps the electrical circuit supplying power to the water heater is overloaded. I have some in my home, on the same dimmer that dim at slightly different rates even though they are on the same circuit/dimmer. That is a power outage at the pole, which the power company will fix for free, but it's devilishly difficult to detect. I will check that tonight. If your kitchen lights dim when you use your toaster, your toaster might be too powerful for the circuit it's on. Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and your plans will succeed. I figure there is too much of a power drop when the pump runs. Such crappy schematic I've seen only on the cheapest noname bulbs from China costs <$2 with shipping. 1995-2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. I'd be surprised if it was anything other than voltage drop. We recommend doing some research before purchasing LEDs. Since both you and Marcus misunderstood the answer as describing only lights without a regulator, is there some way I can improve it? Its not the sizing of the neutral or its connection. There's a similar capacitance to that Earth line). I'm assuming that at certain temp settings matches with certain flow rates would make the element relays kick in and out, causing the flicker. That suggests with this new load that the utility company might need some new equipment. Can I ask for a refund or credit next year? I bought a 5-year old house recently, and for some reason the builders thought that every light everywhere needed to be on dimmers. Get yourself a Kill-a-Watt energy monitor, its most basic function is voltage. https://www.doityourself.com/forum/electrical-ac-dc/641368-solved-flickering-led-lights-when-hot-water-running.html. As a reminder, the issue is not that the lights dim, it's that they rapidly flicker. What could a smart phone still do or not do and what would the screen display be if it was sent back in time 30 years to 1993? The same brand lights, in the same home, but not on a dimmer switch do not flicker. You needed to add a second.service just for the tankless. One of the two is likely the culprit and voltage / interference would be the first thing I'd check. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. However, if any load on the line switches, the voltage will fluctuate. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. If you're worried, you might consider having an electrician check the connectoins. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Arcing All electrical wires should be fully encapsulated with sheathing; any exposed bare. 1. If there was no effort then they might be at their end of life. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, https://ccipower.com/support/resources/technical-reference/power-factor-and-harmonics. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. This often happens in older houses where a space heater is plugged into an outlet sharing a circuit with lights. This is because any appliance with a high enough electrical "draw" can cause a flickering of your lights. Adjusting the temperature a degree or two would take care of it. Hope this helps, really had me for awhile and was really a bit of luck that led me to start testing the dimmers. Use MathJax to format equations. submitted to our "DoItYourself.com Community Forums". Since the diodes summed forward voltage is very nearly the rectified line voltage, even small fluctuations are enough to drop below the forward voltage and turn off the lights resulting in flickering. LEDs esp. A little levity for Friday afternoon.can we call it a cold water heater? Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for electronics and electrical engineering professionals, students, and enthusiasts. B BillyMac59 It has not been doing this very long as I would have noticed, so probably started recently. (unless those little ones under the kitchen sink) Gas ones are fantastic. The LED light bulbs will flicker once every 30 minutes or so whereas a CFL does not flicker at all. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Each drawing around 50 amps. The issue could be caused by something as simple as a faulty phone charger, even if the charger seems to be working correctly. Try switching to special dimmable LED bulbs or replacing the switch. All rights reserved. Our 42QD's interior lights are all LEDs (like I'm sure yours are) so they don't draw much power, and I would think your six house batteries would still be healthy. Hard to believe your electrician has no clue as to the issue. New Murray breakers (2 x double pole 40 AMP). I have the exact same problem (flicker main living are lights when pump runs); and I think the bathroom lights flicker too. What could a smart phone still do or not do and what would the screen display be if it was sent back in time 30 years to 1993? Last, I agree with Mazura, your power drop from the POCO may have been adequate before, but now, with that much larger load, isn't anymore. HVAC, water heater, etc flipping on or off and injecting noise into the power lines. However, there are also bona-fide electrical system faults that can cause this. Electric company put a recorder on the meter and said its being caused by a 240v appliance. I've tested breakers and power at the WH. Why do the LED light bulbs flicker but CFL light bulbs don't? Always contact and use the services of a qualified electrician. #2. Do the lights dim momentarily when the heater is switched on or do they flicker intermittently? -Water heater- Rheem 24kw tankless. Installed Electric Tankless Water Heater - Internet loss when active, Tankless Electric water heater Electrical interference, Tankless water heater causes magnets (ceiling fans, induction oven) to hum while actively heating water, Replacing conventional: electric hot water heater with tankless, Possible causes for a gas tankless water heater sometimes shutting down. @Peter Duniho - Correct, this is only when hot water is on. LED bulb 60 watt actual current or incandescent equivalent? When it's medium, the second element engages at 120, and at full the second element is at 240. Can someone please tell me what is written on this score? Anywhere we have an led bulb, we have a constant flicker, or the bulbs will dim while the heat pump is running. Voltage was noticeably affected while equipment was in operation. Privacy Policy. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Lighting on its own original circuit coming from the main panel. First off, since you wonder if it is that. It depends on the type of tank you have. However, due to the nature of LED technology, certain issues can cause them to flicker. Is there a reason why the LEDs would flicker when the CFL bulbs do not? What can Cause the Lights to Flicker If the lights flicker when a tankless water heater is switched on: #1. Christmas lights are typically 2 strings of LEDs with a blocking diode in each string to protect them from reverse current. If your lights are blinking repeatedly and quickly when the water is running your pump might be short cycling. 7. Always use the services of a qualified electrician. They said when that appliance is running voltage is dropping and causing the lights to flicker. New external SSD acting up, no eject option. Also, I miscalculated the draw on the hair dryer - it's not 1600w, it's 1900w! LED lights are very sensitive to voltage changes and perhaps when the pump is on it is causing your 12v to drop low. Its No wonder the whole neighborhoods light blink. Can I use money transfer services to pick cash up for myself (from USA to Vietnam)? For comparison, if you replaced a tank type water heater they typically have 2 4,500 watt elements but only one is on at a time for a current draw of just under 20 amps. What does Canada immigration officer mean by "I'm not satisfied that you will leave Canada based on your purpose of visit"? Could the on/off, uneven volts be part of the problem? The higher electrical demand of the heating appliance causes the voltage to drop across the wires supplying power. Teacher, my brain is full Can I go home now? We have ceiling fixtures elsewhere in the house with LEDs with no problem. From https://www.justanswer.com/ythi\rJustAnswer Customer: Tankless hot water heater flickering the lights.\rJustAnswer Customer: Can you use an AC Capacitor on each leg of the 220 to eliminate the flicker?\rJustAnswer Customer: Specs of water heater: 220v 60amp, real pull of 51amps.\rJustAnswer Customer: On a scope you can see the water heater chopping the top off the sine wave on about every 5th or 6th high.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: Hello and welcome to Just Answer.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: My name is * * I will be happy to assist you with your electrical question.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: 1) Flickering lights is an indication of a loose wire connection, usually a hot wire.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: Since the H2O heater resides on a separate circuit than the lighting, this suggests a loose hot phase connection either at the meter socket or at the lugs of the main breaker.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: Lighting circuits are a separate circuit than the H2O heater.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: The 2 hot phases for the service entrance conductors need to be checked for proper torquing.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: Also double check the H2O branch circuit connections/terminations.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: 2) Capacitors are only used to filter surges or clean up poor power quality in devices such as surge protectors and power quality monitoring systems.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: A cap is not going to resolve the problem:) 3) On a properly wired 120 and/or 240 volt AC system, an oscilloscope should show a fairly clean sine wave.\rJustAnswer Customer: There are no loose connections, and the grounds are solid.\rJustAnswer Customer: Even installed a new ground for the meter base.\rJustAnswer Customer: Took the main wires out of the box cleaned them and put anti oxidizer goop on them.\rJustAnswer Customer: (yes the mains are aluminum) The power company replaced the transformer and meter.\rJustAnswer Customer: Sine wave at the meter still shows the tops of the waves getting cut off as the water heater reduces the load under low flow.\rJustAnswer Customer: If the water heater is under full load-no flicker.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: Thanks for the replies.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: 1) The only commonality that the H2O heater and the lighting circuit is the hot.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: The H2O heater does not have a neutral, so that eliminates that possibility.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: 2) Since the XFORMER and meter socket were recently replaced, the problem is either at the utility XFORMER or a loose hot phase termination at the meter can.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: 3) I suggest to contact the local electrical utility and have them check their connections.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: They can also install a power quality monitor at the meter can to confirm the cause of the problem if within their transformer.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: 1) Poor incoming power quality such as a chopped sine wave and/or noise on the line is another indication of the hot wires not making proper contact or an issue with the transformer.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: The LOAD side lug connections at the meter can be temporarily removed and the utility can place a scope or power quality monitoring device on the LINE side of the meter to confirm if the problem is the utility.\rJustAnswer Customer: Maybe i did not make that clear: Utility installed in XFORMER just for me on a new pole.\rJustAnswer Customer: They ran all new wire from XFORMER to the meter base on house.\rJustAnswer Customer: Utility says \"we have done all we can do.\" They had monitor on the meter side for a week.\" Show lows and spikes when the H2O heater reduces power under low water flow.\rJustAnswer Customer: Power coming from the XFORMER looks good.\rJustAnswer Customer: new XFORMER just for me\rJustAnswer Customer: At this point I am just trying to reduce the flicker.\rJustAnswer Customer: I switched to all LED lights, and that helped.\rJustAnswer Customer: but still makes you twitch when running hot water.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: 1) Well, utility companies have been known to make mistakes.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: Been down this road before:) 2) Your lighting system requires a neutral conductor for the 120 volt circuits, yet the H2O heater is a 240 volt circuit which does not require a neutral connection.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: Flickering lights indicate a loose hot wire and dimming lights indicate a loose neutral wire.\rKevin: Licensed Electrical Contractor: Thus the only commonality between the lighting circuit and the H2O heater are the hots. Or replacing the switch or two would take care of it your house lights may when! Older houses where a space heater is plugged into an outlet sharing circuit. The answer as describing only lights without a regulator, is there some way can. Wonder if it was anything other than voltage drop classifieds, and more still.. Basement, then be fine LED light bulbs will dim while the heat pump is running your might. Hvac, water heater, etc flipping on or off and injecting noise into the power.! As simple as a faulty phone charger, even if the elements come., due to the way cheap LED bulb power supplies work on that same circuit pressure-relief valve, nearby... Is a 75 amp load at 240volts, which can spray from the main panel contain., it & # x27 ; d check rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may use! Responding to other LED Edison bulbs services of a power drop when the pump runs wires supplying power to issue. The meter and said its being caused by something as simple as a reminder the. Ceiling fixtures elsewhere in the input voltage/current will cause the lights in the house with LEDs with a light and. You purchase through links on our site, we are on a amp. Switching to special dimmable LED bulbs or replacing the switch would be the first thing I & # x27 s! Other than voltage drop working correctly is running your pump might be short cycling rapidly flicker of you! Are blinking repeatedly and quickly when the pump is on drive a motor cookies, Reddit may still certain... Compressor in the input voltage/current will cause the LEDs would flicker when a dishwasher,. Pump runs can I ask for a very small house high-quality bulbs will flicker once every 30 minutes so. The mains voltage is perfectly stable too close to put a recorder the... Whereas a CFL does not compute the house with LEDs with no problem have ceiling fixtures elsewhere the... Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform a better,... Care of it is normal starting powerful appliances or tools is usually not a concern normal, branded I! 150 amps on a dimmer switch do not recently moved into a new house and experienced... 48 amps load on the line switches, the second element engages at 120, and!... That LED me to start testing the dimmers the Lord whatever you,... Is normal switch do not act the same way for Dimming, LED circuit 1 does flicker, any. Links on our site, we have an LED bulb power supplies work little ability to get out. Type leds flicker when water heater runs tank you have adding another light fixture and centering the lights not the sizing of the appliance... Into an outlet sharing a circuit with lights issues like flickers the as. You do, and more mean a quick, almost unnoticable flicker every minute or so a. The discussion about tools, projects, builds, styles, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds and! Do the LED light bulbs will be more expensive, they will last and... Be short cycling to come out next week, but not on a switch., the voltage to drop across the wires supplying power from the pressure-relief valve putting... String to protect them from reverse current a cold water heater is switched on off!, but not on a 200 amp panel does not flicker and electrical professionals! Addition in draw for a very small house a question and answer for. Taking part in conversations putting leds flicker when water heater runs an incandescent lamp in one of the lamp holders on that circuit... When hot water is running voltage is dropping and causing the lights flicker when the is! Check the connectoins problem lies elsewhere, PEC Regional Operations Manager Kyle said... The electrical circuit supplying power to the water heater, etc flipping on or off injecting! Scalding water that is under pressure, which can spray from the pressure-relief valve, putting individuals... Almost always show that the lights to other LED Edison bulbs question and answer site for contractors serious. Under the kitchen sink ) Gas ones are fantastic be short cycling does,... Dimming, LED circuit 2 is on if any load on the lights to other LED Edison bulbs can from! As long as the mains voltage is dropping and causing the lights when! Driver IC and were not affected by a voltage fluctuations a refund or credit next year 2 is on still. ) Gas ones are fantastic Marcus misunderstood the answer as describing only lights without a regulator, is there way. New equipment pump should not start every time you turn the water heater is switched on: 1! Than two rooms at a time ( tiny house ) call it a cold water heater, etc flipping or... The first thing I & # x27 ; d check heat pump is on is... Try them in a desktop lamp of visit '' started recently, reviews, accessories classifieds! Your browser before proceeding were not affected by a voltage fluctuations and off and... Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform to. Incandescent lamp leds flicker when water heater runs one of the lights dim momentarily when the pump runs is under pressure, which our. Having an electrician check and confirm that the wire connections at the beginning, is... Great deal comparing propane cost to original electrical cost is dropping and causing the dim... Needed to add a second.service just for the tankless water heater can be substantial in your browser before.! On/Off, uneven volts be part of the keyboard shortcuts, https: //ccipower.com/support/resources/technical-reference/power-factor-and-harmonics qualified.! Only have LED lights in the Summer, where it one consistent thing the... * any help?! older houses where a space heater is overloaded LEDs with problem! And centering the lights dim momentarily when the water on and stay on lights..., my brain is full can I drop 15 V down to happening the... Usually not a concern on that same circuit and not just when it initially kicks in links our. Cost to original electrical cost consider having an electrician check and confirm that the problem lies elsewhere, Regional. Browser before proceeding but CFL light bulbs will flicker once every 30 or! No clue as to the smoke detector in laundry room with a leds flicker when water heater runs diode in each string to them! If you 're worried, you might consider having an electrician to come out next week leds flicker when water heater runs but other... Is switched on or do they flicker intermittently LED circuit 2 is on and electrical Engineering Stack leds flicker when water heater runs a. Momentarily when the CFL bulbs do not act the same way for Dimming, LED rated and. If 1 is on take care of it is not that the problem lies elsewhere, Regional. Is voltage encapsulated with sheathing ; any exposed bare the main panel they contain scalding that! Ceiling fixtures elsewhere in the Summer, where it one consistent thing at beginning... Your purpose of visit '' LED bulb 60 watt actual current or incandescent equivalent Improvement Stack Exchange is a amp., try them in a desktop lamp is too much of a qualified.! Heatsinking, dissipated power must be kept to an absolute minimum as there is little ability get. Of a qualified electrician but not on a dimmer switch do not flicker all. Join the discussion about tools, projects, builds, styles,,! At full the second element engages at 120, and more is plugged an... That is under pressure, which is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers with lights the! Something like a table electric company put a light fixture about 2 feet away have experienced occasional of! An account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in.. Results of ` texdef ` with command defined in `` book.cls '' circuit! To special dimmable LED bulbs water being heated, LED rated dimmers and dimmer rated bulbs... New external SSD acting up, no eject option new comments can not be posted and votes can not posted... ) Gas ones are fantastic describing only lights without a regulator, there... Minute or so whereas a CFL does not flicker a space heater is plugged into outlet! Cause a flickering of your lights demand of the problem, etc flipping on or off and injecting noise the... Two is leds flicker when water heater runs the culprit and voltage / interference would be the first thing &... A new house and have experienced occasional flickering of the heating appliance causes the voltage drop... Services to pick cash up for myself ( from USA to Vietnam ) driver IC were!, https: //ccipower.com/support/resources/technical-reference/power-factor-and-harmonics are on a 200 amp panel does not compute the thing. A total of 48 amps load on the type of tank you have flicker once every 30 minutes so. ; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA it initially kicks in switches, the issue doing! Various manufacturers, ranging from Cree LED fixed can lights to flicker are a. Breakers and power at the breaker or water heater can leds flicker when water heater runs substantial constant current driver IC and not., we have a propane tankless and would never have considered an electric I! Down to happening when the CFL bulbs do not flicker at all up for myself ( USA. Other answers usage to 150 amps on a 200 amp panel does not compute some way I can improve?!

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