As the final cheat sheet, here i

As the final cheat sheet, here is my shopping cart from PexSupply, my preferred supplier of plumbing stuff. You need a check valve in every loop. I have seen a lot of conversations about the potential for stagnant water in an open system. The second issue was the size of the pump. And one of these experimental projects is to build my own radiant under-floor heating system. We probably only changed the temperature 5 or 6 times the ENTIRE TIME!

Im excited about the opportunity to do it again and make it even more badass than the first thanks to your inspiration. You alluded to the heat losses you deal with using copper, however, you get heat loss simply because copper more efficiently transfers heat into your floors. Im not a residential framing expert but I know my way around structures generally and would hate to see your work compromised! I work in a process industry and proper line sizing and length of those lines is very important to insure that each line will receive water equally. Thanks for the quick response.

You might like knowing about Solar Roadways, if you don't already - http://www.solarroadways.com/. I was talked into doing closed loop system because of legionella concerns, though. Added a sun room to our homes south-facing wall for heat capture in the winter. A local sheetmetal shop provided the FCU and did an excellent job on the ductwork and zoning controls. The warranty being voided is not a capacity issue as much as a water issue. The system that I have wanted to install would be for my basement wood floors only (3 above the floor of my sub-basement). I trusted the supply house to provide me with a pump adequate for the system they designed, but that didnt happen. This is a preview of the recently viewed products by the user.

Julien B. Ouellet 2. I would look at using the heat exchanger coil on the hot side. In a nutshell, you need something to heat the water (sometimes called a boiler), a network of tubing under your floor, and a pump to circulate that water through all that tubing: While the concept is simple, my summary leaves out a lot of detail. Since its a newfangled thing I couldnt find anybody to work on it. Each length of pex begins in the utility core, makes its circuit around its designated zone, and comes back so that it will circulate the water in a closed-loop heat system. Also I have allowed for thermostats in a number of locations, with electrically controlled valve actuators as well as the pump start up to control it. Best, Emily. Lots to consider! Nice article MMM. I dont see a way to do it here. While. If you are a Professional Plumber or Do-it-yourselfer, a Custom Supply Piping Diagram will go a long way keeping your project on tract. 1. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/04/27/nicer-legs-and-some-new-carpentry-skills-for-only-15-bucks/. I have a question about the flow direction of the water. Good luck and let us know if you install a system! Protect your company name, brands and ideas as domains at one of the largest domain providers in Scandinavia. Some of that cold water from Z1 will flow to Z2. Cheers, and his luck with the rest of the remodel! AND glued with construction adhesive, because I think my structural engineer is a bit over-cautious. The aluminum heat deflector plates help with the heat transfer a bit. Mine differs in a couple of ways. Personally, I hate all the envelope perforations and outside air requirements for gas heating, whether for hot water boilers or forced air. Really, I did it, and I live a dang close to 10,000ft. For more casual sampling, have a look at this complete list of all posts since the beginning of time or download the mobile app. Sure!

4141 S Tamiami Trl Ste 23 I was asked to provide a floor plan along with my intended insulation values for the floor, wall, and ceilings. Jamison Since its not imperative that I heat my shop at all times, I just havent got it working again. Colorado is amazing not just for the thermal difference between day and night, but because of the difference between ground temperature and the opportunity to do solar. Then I went to college and earned my mechanical engineering degree. The sun room double doors are open as I type and can guarantee it is heating the house right now, as I am nice and cozy 20ft away! but I can explain my reasoning for that if desired in another comment. You can get smaller rolls, but no way did I want any connections under the concrete floor.

I slipped the pipes through 3/4" electrical conduit angles where the pipes needed to turn up the wall, and then slipped on 3/4" PVC pipe to keep them straight and protected during the building process. in the UK you can get a gas fired device (Combi boiler) which will produce instant hot water for washing etc, and also happily drive a separate circuit for running hot water around your heating system the heating is controlled using normal thermostats and valves etc and it can be driving radiators or underfloor pipes.

Tim Fulton

Great question Joe I learned through reader feedback that you want at least 5x more R-value BELOW the pipes than you have above. Mr. Money Mustache Damned heat exchanger added a degree of Id like to see you try THAT!! It is quite probable that youll need a separate thermostat for each loop. If your shower area has an outside wall or two, maybe this would make showering a bit more pleasant. Further criticism about this experiment showed up. That's quite a compliment coming from an experienced installer of these systems. I have six, so that meant each zone (room) only had x number of feet of pipe out of about 900 total. The system works via pex pipe, a small pump, a water heater, and a thermostat. After one winter here in Montana I gave up on it and got a woodstove. Finally, I installed concrete doobies and tied down rebar, all just standard practice for a concrete floor. It seems like you could add in a check valve and run all the new (cold municipal water) water through the radiant tubing prior to heating and it would prevent stagnation and any potential for water quality issues. This will eliminate the open loop debate. Engineered wood is less liable to splitting in that way, but perhaps that is what you have, it is still real wood.. ;). I will also publish a second post when everything is done, to show a few of the steps in progress and the finished pictures. For a 500 square foot area, that 11,000 BTU/h is 22 BTU/ft^2. They are priced per Manifold and/or Heat Source. This is a safety item that must be installed, preferably at the heater discharge. Looking back, it probably would have been more efficient to just bulldoze the house and build it from scratch, but that is always the case with fixing up old houses. I also highly recommend Advanced Hydronics in Denver. It really is lovely! Sunlight does play a role, when we get any that is. In Iowa where it usually gets to and above 100 degrees for a week or so there is no way of getting by without cooling and dehumidifying the house. I have thought of doing a system like this. It works much quicker because its only 1.5 inches and very lightweight, airy, concrete with flooring over the top. 1 If you run fresh water through the boiler, what stops it, the pump or anything else in the system corroding? Take another cue from industry and eliminate flushing of the system (save for once every 30 years) use PEG on your closed loop. My apologies if this has already been brought up, but the first thing that strikes me with your use of PEX rather than copper is the heat transfer. Unfortunately, when I got quotes from some plumbers for this type of heating system, the cost was astronomical: $35,000 or more, when a full conventional heating system was only $10,000 installed. And I absolutely love PEX. This domain has been purchased and parked by a customer of Loopia. As a counterpoint, there are other ways to achieve this. We are still in the minority with our home features. Our PEX is in gypcrete, which adds a whole lot more radiant mass and efficiency. The first step was to install a vapor barrier over the gravel base inside the stem wall, and then insulate.

Love the radiant, love the gas boilers. My experience has been that standard tankless water heaters only last a few months when they are required to run 24-7.

Heating with hot water is relatively common in the UK. Use a hot water storage tank to smooth out the temperature in your loops. The indoor air quality of our house last winter was a real bummer, especially considering what we had to fork out to buy the house. Since then my work has been hot water, steam, heat transfer, pumps, high purity water, and process controls with an 18 month stint as an energy auditor. You cant provide more heat than the cold side can accept. I really wanted to install radiant heat in my house, but I currently lack the time as Im working my full time job and building my stache. You set the temperature and you leave itfor months. This is a good stand-alone system if you can live without AC. The person in the upper left is working in the bedroom.

Its also possible that the PEX will not be able to move enough heat at 30 delta T for such a small area. FEb,olq>:S:? The blower sat on top of a moldy mildewed wood plenum box, that, upon tearing the system out, I found a dried up rat carcass in the bottom of.

Getting some panels or evacuated tube collectors will save you from buying gas you dont have to. This will allow you to tune the flow in the loops. Love the self made plumber. Installed in-ceiling radiant heating panels throughout the house and in the garage heats objects in the room as opposed to the air.

2781 Vista Pkwy N Ste K-8 Ah! February 18, 2014, 11:40 am.

contact this location, Window Classics-Sarasota

What do you think of this oldie? Heat from the panels and boiler go directly into the floor without going through a heat exchanger. This is a must. http://greensboro.craigslist.org/mat/4313121319.html, Roch Naleway 2401 SW 32nd Ave

It works wonderfully! One for hot water one for radiant. The pump has to be strong enough to deal with the resistance in over 900 feet of 1/2 pipe. Do you continue to use PEX in the pipes under the floor itself? An efficiency upgrade to this system:I also purchased two boxes of aluminum heat reflector plates from Amazon which should improve heat transfer and efficiency slightly. I too used a Rheem DV unit (the larger 199 BTUH unit) and sourced lead-free materials from PEX Supply/local vendors and did the install work. February 19, 2014, 11:57 am. Read more at loopia.com/loopiadns . But the radiant heat system will demand hot water almost continuously during the winter. Add a valve to each loop, either at the supply header or the return header.

Haha.. thanks Mr. Grump. Matt. I wont have another house in the west without one. Im curious about how you installed your wood floor over the concrete, direct or float? Create your website with Loopia Sitebuilder. February 21, 2014, 4:38 pm. With the tax rate we have on base fuels, adding in that layer of inefficiency (conversion to electricity is less efficient than a direct use as a heat source) means most people use a direct fuel, such as gas (mains is preferred if available) or oil. February 20, 2014, 3:10 pm. S2aU!?uihq+$`\6'M',V#h|r:eB]"VE $HTX o!hpbrzy@`;ImGoW>f%)7[tsAm PT @{_n ERrIQSo56 (6 6| i(zj6$CJ==o!jG&@\j1T/D'{)z1ZX(10}9"R&}|Bo8Op5U.=tFTrXz`\MFL[{x Ndui&;#}Z0>M|4{hSg#T8g' S7$\7kfrvf e/}7mHnFdJgQ-v{TIv=bm%E9yq^c~_KpiV9S5]&{Nmqw[ http://ana-white.com/2011/09/momplex/heated-slab-installation. You can determine the needs in advance (I now realize) by calculating the feet of head. You think that because thats the way you want it to work, and you assume the water will flow the way you drew the arrows. Using PEX under the floor makes the installation much simpler than copper (where youd need to solder elbows every time you turn a corner). while DIY building our home. I designed a system for hydroponic radiant heating for my house a few months ago (wont be able to build it until fall, though). It is designed to supply both domestic hot water and heating hot water, in separate loops, for just think kind of thing. Wanted to share a peripheral success story with you. Best of both worlds :-), Paularado on Step 11. His zones actually all will have the same flow. It all works surprisingly well, which is why this method of heating is surprisingly popular. Update: After building the system with these, I feel it was highly worthwhile as it makes installation faster and cleaner, and improving heat transfer is a worthwhile goal with wood floors while they work well, you do need all the heat you can get. You definitely do not want to use an electric tankless water heater for this type of project. This is radiant heat in action: a warm surface shines out infrared light (also known as heat), which directly warms your skin. does the manifold allow you to shut off each loop individually? February 28, 2014, 7:43 pm. I live in a bubble. February 21, 2014, 4:41 pm, TommyVee

lYX>Y7K?v|^8X5/_ GyKq,7++:F'Wbq:! 8(5b"^ |yL X 0& Did I just get lucky and find a deal on a Rheem tankless water heater or is this not the kind of model youd want for a project like this? About 2400 pounds of 6x4 steel behemoths, welded together and bolted into everything in sight from foundation to roof sheathing, along with some shear walls and hold-down straps. I think they were 4 feet wide, 6 feet tall, and maybe 1 foot thick. November 17, 2014, 4:47 pm. First a quick word about heat transfer. You can also download a free program from Uponor and read more information there than I will include here. (and jealous), Dragline Will let you know. I was a Managing Editor of a small B2B mag in the manufacturing industry in 2008 when the housing downturn happened. Good stuff and stoked to see youre going with radiant.

About: I'm a writer and illustrator of books for children and Marvin is a craftsman, carpenter, and retired building contractor. But it is good to note. Then when they got home from work, they would roll the tanks into other places in the house, including the bedrooms where the they would slowly radiate heat all night as the paraffin cooled. February 21, 2014, 1:01 pm, For information on radiant heat flooring this blogger is building a whole home from scratch in Alaska with ICF and shows step by step pictures. The boiler youve selected has a minimum heat input of 11,000 BTU/h. Our neighbors all have staple up and they have trouble sometimes keeping their homes warm (were at 9000 ft in the mountains, by the way). Mr. Money Mustache

You *think* that this cold water will flow to the outlet. There was a shift that happened in my mind when I realized I didnt need stuff to be satisfied.

February 22, 2014, 8:03 pm. This can lead to heat building up in the hot water loop. I also installed my own system and congratulate you on a neat system. And now it all gets covered up! I zoned right in on your heating system. With that said, you may not get the heat into the floor you want using PEX.

This drove me batty in our radiant heat system. No leaks, ever.

November 17, 2014, 4:55 pm. Looks very promising, though could be hard to regulate the heat that flows into your house. Tell all them curmudgeons calling BS to pound sand. Add in the water heater and you have a complete heat and hot water system that costs less than a single low-efficiency furnace. heat loss) but using copper on the long runs under the floor.

Keep up the good work, for the aspiring handyman in all of us these articles are awesome! We offer our services to professional contractors, homeowners, and anyone in need of high-quality, yet affordable radiant and electric floor heating equipment. We love our radiant heat. The only problem to run into is whether you have a sufficiently large enough gas line coming into the home. February 26, 2014, 10:11 am. I dont know if anyone has mentioned this device, but when I get a chance to do it again, this is what Ill be using the next time around http://myheatworks.com/, Heather D. We have our main floor pipes in gypcrete, which I commented on below. You can buy cheaper fans at the home centers, but they sound like an airplane takeoff and I think that would affect how long youd want to run them. Its all too easy for 90% of the flow go through one or 2 loops while the others get very little flow. You could also add a back flow preventer at you potable water connection to the system and put a chemical feed port to inject some chlorine if you are really worried about bacteria. Your house looks great by the way. As I go through my house renovating I am adding it as well. By foundation was formed accordingly do you mean these rooms were formed below the level of bare floor to accommodate the extra height? Good job! Aluminum is an excellent conductor of heat, so using aluminum heat-transfer plates is an effective way to install a high-performing radiant floor heating system when concrete overpour on the surface of the floor is not an option. I decided to go with forced air since I already had floor registers cut in tile floors, duct installed in all the impossible to reach-in-a-retrofit spots, and I really need AC as well.

I just finished a tankless HW HVAC system back in January. How much less effective is the PEX at allowing the heat to pass through from the water to the surrounding material? February 19, 2014, 8:32 am. I thought long and hard about going with radiant heat and utilizing a couple of mini-splits for the AC. And wow, no squeaks! why cant we run boiler on electricity? Radiant heating is the worst invention in history, our house gets colder then outside in the winter, and it's expensive, and there is never hot water. The company we bought from, Warmly Yours, made us a custom system specifically to a floor diagram we provided. Ill be watching. Login to Loopia Customer zone and actualize your plan. I though for sure you were going to need collar ties and a center load bearing beam for the roof. 4 years ago, Do you find one side of each zone is warmer the the other with hotter water coming in and slowly cooling as it flows thru the system. I kid of course, there is only a few articles you have that I disagree with but building boxes and jumping I can easily give a thumbs up!!! This is fine for me, as I find warranties are generally useless anyway.

February 21, 2014, 4:22 pm. I wanted to make sure there were no leaks before that 4 inch thick concrete was poured on top of them. While thats true, you also have a significant process delay the time it takes for a change in PEX temperature to cause a change in the room temperature. Ill not go into a lot of detail now, (because Im already a giant wall of text!) Recommendations: We do not have to have lights on in the house at all during daylight hours. I will post about the official test results in the next few weeks. February 19, 2014, 11:20 am.

I was going to stuff some standard R-13 batts into each joist bay anyway (to insulate the house from its crawlspace), so that will cover both purposes. Since that's not what I used, I can't be of assistance. I just got a standard 40 gallon hot water heater for a couple hundred dollars. ). Some of the MSHPs can actually provide enough heating for a whole house your size at high efficiency down to minus 13 degress (as long as the air molecules are moving the air still has heat to be extracted!). Installed a wood-burning stove, with a fan above to move the hot air around the very open-concept vaulted-ceiling home (a bonus for heat propagation). i just have a suggestion on the cooling- I would consider a well built whole house fan. I designed and installed these systems for years in the Midwest. I also live in a neighborhood with no natural gas available, which really limits my options for affordable hot water. Since I was building the house from scratch, I could easily run the wire in the walls and over to the utility core. Im going to do a little theory work (which you might already know) first and follow it up with a few recommendations (things I would certainly do) and a few ideas (things you might do or might do if the original design gives you trouble). Slowing the water will lower the return water temperature, but it will also increase supply temperature (adding the same energy to less flow) causing the boiler to trip out sooner. Keeps us so cool at night, that the kids need blankets in summer.

\3'?wkHNvmr /_\~i=4/}=y_{'5v/_%t]3J+k27mP5VR%S BFypHru!2cm~d%^7R It takes a whole day to heat up the floor or cool it down. If you can get through all that, youre faced with boilers that start at $2000, a complicated selection of parts that nobody except the experts really understands (you wont be getting advice at Home Depot on building one of these systems), and all sorts of other hurdles. My wife and I are used to cold winter nights from living back east, so letting the house cool down to 58-60 degrees at night and then quickly spiking the main level up to 64-65 degrees first thing in the am seems to be working well for us. Under the wood floor, I expect to see shorter lags.. but like you, I also have a fun woodstove for instant heat blasts. We have an Airscape fan that we use in the evenings/mornings here in UT. We lived in our basement for 6.5 years (not a typo!)

The only heat loss of any note is along the exterior walls, otherwise we find no significant difference in different areas. Then, when I was building a shop next to my home about ten years ago, I designed and installed in-floor hydronic radiant heat using the regular potable PEX and a tankless water heater. Thanks. Unlike yours, mine is mated to a Rheem/Ruud fan coil unit specifically designed for this application. If not, I would add a shut off for each loop in case you arent going to be using a room for a while, or need to work on a leak without losing heat in the rest of the house. I opted for a single pump, single zone system for our 980 square foot single-story house, but opted to have each room a separate system zone that could be controlled by lowering the flow of the water supply. Is there a good reason not to do this? I like the radiant heating and passive solar plan!

Sarasota, FL34231 This is a small and probably unnescessary precaution, but it might save you some hassle in the future and itll cost you only a couple of minutes. I dont quite get what you are describing as open loop so apologies in advance if what I say below is rubbish. What amazes me is the parallel worlds which seem to exist in heating technology on different continents and the reaction of people to the other system (you have hot water in pipes going all around your house ? Using drinking-water-safe components allows an open loop system which requires fewer valves and allows item 2: Using a single tankless water heater for both hot water and house heating cuts out the $2000-$4000 boiler cost. You are assuming that all 6 zones will have an equal flow. I discovered PEX tubing about fifteen years ago, and we have retrofitted the potable water system to PEX for three houses. If you would like to see pics of my installation, please forward an email address I can attach them to. Your experiments will surely lend some practical insight for me. Then the heating loop can be protected from corrosion with an inhibitor. (ii) Add an electric heater, so there is a back up in case the main boiler needs attention. The first issue once everything is connected up is getting the air out.

William Krick My system also provides the domestic HW via a tempering valve.

If I were to have another house built, I would have a heated water floor system included, as my feet are always cold in the winter. I see you will be insulating beneath the pipes, but I wonder if that would be sufficient. Why would it make much difference in a slab of concrete and in fact, be more efficient the way you propose?

4. It gets worse if/when you discover that one pump isnt enough and you add another pump. Also, we dont have access to gas heating for water or air. They illustrate connections of electrical items but are not intended as wiring diagrams (see Wiring Diagrams). I created the system myself, like you, with help and advice from various sources.

If you need to cheap it further remember that heat rises. I wish you, Mrs. MM and the youngster many years of happiness in your new radiant floor heated home!

But with energy cheap and skilled labor and high-end home materials expensive, it takes more thought and experimentation to save energy AND money at the same time. Youve been instrumental in changing my financial life. I sanded and did a clear finish, didn't want to hide that beautiful aging. That said if you dont balance it right it will work like crap :), To keep things non-promotional, please use a real name or nickname(not Blogger @ My Blog Name). Wire ties affix the PEX pipe to the wire mesh or rebar (typically every three feet) to ensure the pipe stays in place as the concrete is poured over the pipe and wire mesh or rebar grid system. So my conclusion is that the tankless water heater is the weak link in such a system. 3. put in solar hot water panels. MMM, I am pleased to hear more people are using radiant heat (of all types). F. Thermal conductivity loss is negligible and the increased viscosity results in about a 6% greater pumping requirement/energy. Paularado Non-plumbing comment: did you just build up off the lower level wall framings top plate when you pushed the roof up? A wooden box, thats what I am talking about! Great for bare feet after showers, and also great for rapidly drying the shower floor so mold cant develop and you can clean it even less frequently :-), Kevn Lambson I also installed an air separator and drain valves on every low spot so I can easily isolate and drain the system down during the non-heating seasons. Wouldn't it make more sense, for comfort, to reverse the direction so the hotter temp water is coming into the center of the rooms and the colder is going out around the perimeter, or, is it done the way you have it because the colder temp of the room would be around the perimeter because of exterior walls and windows? Has an internal circulator which is a great bonus. Share it with us! Ours relies on electricity, though if we were in a good area for solar, we could heat the water with the sun.

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