linotype lead hardness

2021/05/21

JavaScript is disabled. I'm I to assume that the linotype is lighter than soft lead? JavaScript is disabled. What you need to watch is that your linotype is not something else.

Here's what we learned from looking at the physical properties of silver: Casting silver bullets won't be as easy as I'd hoped, but I haven't found any reason why it can't work. I need to soften my linotype lead to a more desirable hardness level similar to WW lead. bullets batches alloys superhard solder How can I tell?

Still haven't decided on the lube, will probably try some of each from other casters and see how they work. Yes, linotype metal throws bullets that are about 10% lighter than if cast with pure lead. Many would be happy to trade wheel weights or plumbers lead for your Linotype. It would consume some energy, so the bullet may not fly as far or as fast, but nobody's going to get hurt. billwnr wrote: I would think this is a waste of good linotype and pure lead. I don't know the exact ratio you should use, I can tell you what I do and it might not be the proper mixture. Believe me, I'd be using it if I could get it. Offhand I forget the antimony content but it is a lot more than linotype. Yes Lino is lighter and it throws a bigger bullet. But I can. Also, remember that chemical reactions (like oxidation) happen faster at higher temperatures. I found that if I use 4 parts WW to 1 part linotype, the leading is down to a minimum, they drive a bit deeper into the target, and they dont splatter. Linotype runs 21-22 BHN and pure lead is around 6. A three pound block takes about twenty minutes to dissolve in lead at about 750F. I'm not sure what mixture it is. When I first got into casting a couple years ago I tried wheel weights and found a lot of them were zinc. Silver is dense enough to make an acceptable bullet. Yesterday I blended assorted scrap sheet, pipe and wheelweights into a uniform200 pounds of ingots of known antimony content and hardness. Both have higher resale values than wheel weights. I personally shoot a 70/30 mix of lino/wheelweights as I use the same alloy I use for the 2000fps benchrest competition. Nothing wrong with that, its 5 or 6%. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why both the MythBusters and Jack Lewis noticed that the silver bullets were smaller than they should be. There are a number of ways to measure hardness, but most reloaders use the Brinell Hardness Number (BHN). For sure. wes. Silver shrinks quite a bit more than lead. I agree that it is not advisable to work with lead at more than 800F. If a metal bar is extruded through a hole of exactly 0.5 inch, you won't actually get a 0.5 inch bar, you'll produce something a few thousandths of an inch bigger. Old wheel weights were fairly hard, not much different than linotype. JavaScript is disabled. So a 50/50 alloy will be around 14 BHN which should be good for any handgun bullet. I am beginning to think that if a bullet caster does not understand a little about the metallurgy of his materials he is going to be out of the hobby as sources and availability of materials either drys up or becomes restricted.

But just be aware of it. In South Africa we have not had free wheelweights for years and linotype is rare. More accurately, fire up a muffler furnace to pre-heat the mold, and handle it with tongs. Thanks for the input. Soon after that they started refitting them to cars and the supply dried up. A standard bullet mold will cast a dramatically undersized bullet in silver, so a custom mold is needed. It is one of those oddities of metallurgy. Can any of you guys give me a basic ratio for mixing linotype with straight lead to make something similar to ww lead?

Linotype is sought after by bullet casters. The harder the metal, the more energy is required to deform it. Not too surprisingly, different materials expand and contract at different rates. I just did some today. When I use it down, I will put 1 ingot of linotype to 4 ingots of wheel weight lead. Well, maybe you can't in the US because of the costs of various materials. They are nice material because they are easier to handle than sheet lead for example, but they do need extra antimony.

But it depends on the availability of both materials and leads me to wonder yet again why there is so much reluctance to take control over accurate alloy blending so that any and all available sources can be used as and when available. All things being equal, harder bullets tend to consume more energy than soft ones, and show correspondingly lower muzzle velocities.

4/12 Linotype is good material for rifle bullets, but if we are talking cost, you could probably get the same alloy cheaper by adding antimony to wheelweights. or to put it another way 50-50 then cut that That is not helpful, unless we're talking money not bullets. One has to hunt for lino and pure lead and when found it's not free. Lets be real here , Swiss cheese is only better on a burger when cheddar is not available. I would appreciate any suggestions on how to do this? Sothe 9% antimony you have to buy, and thus your entire alloy cost is $0.60, only half what you are cheerfully paying for linotype. Furthermore, the lead/tin alloys frequently used to cast bullets are also a few percent less dense than pure lead. You can blend any mix you want from any type of scrap. This has required that many of us hobby shooters work a little harder at alternative lead sources. Look for your answers in our Forum and in our bi-monthly publication the Fouling Shot.

At that point you have a hot bullet in the mold, which is going to shrink a little bit as it cools down to room temperature. I am fortunate to have collected various lead and alloys over the years. Lubed them with either RoosterLabs' Zambini Red or Thompson's Blue Angel. As it turns out, lead melts at a relatively cool 621F. Both its melting point and it's coefficient of thermal expansion are higher. I use 50/50 lino and pure to get 7.5% antimony shot. I have been working with antimony ingots and find that they will disolve into soft lead alloy given enough time and the proper conditions. Us cheapos try to get lino for no more than $1.25 per pound, preferrably $1. harden tend freshly drop cast soft age then I am considering going to a softer alloy to test out some of the other shooters ideas. First, when the bullet is being loaded, it's run through a sizing die, which insures the bullet is no larger in diameter than it should be. Anybody knowledgable as to the Brinell hardness I can expect? The need to flux, or possibly even create an intert atmosphere for the casting is much higher with silver than lead. Alox tumble lube is also pretty cheap and easy. 12% Antimonial alloy therefore costs $1.19 a lb, more or less what you expect to pay for linotype. Thinking that my new scale was not right, I placed a 190gr sierra match king and it wieghed out 190 gr. Linotype, for example, is a commonly used "hard lead" alloy, with a BHN of 22. I am beginning to think that if a bullet caster does not understand a little about the metallurgy of his materials he is going to be out of the hobby as sources and availability of materials either drys up or becomes restricted. puts you right about 1% tin and 3% antimony. 50/50 Lyman lists linotype as having a BHN of 22, and wheel weights (not hardened) as having a BHN of 9. The molds are actually a cut couple of thousandths bigger than the desired bullet size, so that the cooled bullets work out to be the right size. 5 parts PB to 1 part Lino (12% Sb) boolit's water dropped will give you about 12 Bhn, same as air cooler WW's. Have a question? The comments so far are not far off but it depends what you think linotype is and what wheelweight alloy is. Linotype is not reliably available but you can blend it any time you like. Both have higher resale values than wheel weights. Someone mentioned proper sizing and that is probably the most important part of casting. I still have three or four hundred pounds of the ingots I made out of the wheel weights I got from there. For the sake of not boring you or others, I put the answer in bold. I can calculate that I need to add about 2.4 thousands of an inch to compensate for the lead shrinking when it cools. OK for handgun and light rifle loads.As long as the bullet is sufficiently hard to handle the pressures, I care little about the excessive hardness of the alloy. They are supposed to be 0.50% tin 4% antimony. The problem is that what you're really doing is bringing the mold up to a reasonable fraction of the temperature of the molten metal. billwnr wrote: Wheelweights are still available locally for free at local gas stations. And for a long time blended one part linotype with 3 parts WW which was fine for my revolver shooting, and light to moderate loads in center fire rifles like the 30-06. In many werewolf books, the hero or heroine melts down an old silver coin or piece of jewelry (usually with appropriate sentimental value) to make the bullet that ultimately kills the werewolf. WW is .5% tin, 2% antimony, 97.5% lead. They also form sharper edges from the mold. I have been working with antimony ingots and find that they will disolve into soft lead alloy given enough time and the proper conditions. Dicko, when we shoot military rifles the velocity usually doesn't exceed 1600 fps and wheelweights are satisfactory for that. I was blessed to come into a significant quantity of linotype and I mix it the same as mik, 50/50. shastaboat wrote: I use 7 ingots of WW and 3 ingots of LT.. Works well for me. Duane Mellenbruch Topeka, KS. And that's for good wheel weights. Tapping them on a hard object gave a tinny sound compared to lead. I have linotype and plumbers lead laying around for a rainy day. One could make a sizing die that's a little smaller than one designed for lead bullets, mount it in a press that's been modified to handle the higher pressures needed to form silver, and get good results. Will try that mix and look at the results and go from there. The NRA's otherwise excellent book Cast Bullets contains a number of falsehoods, one of which is that you need a high temp furnace to melt antimony because of its high melting temp. I'm planning to make a 50/50 mixture. I prefer not to work with the temperatures required to melt Antimony (1149 F) because of the toxic exposure to antimony and lead fumes. Hard lead ships better, and is better able to handle things like being loaded into a tubular magazine with a stiff spring. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forum.php, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?43011-BHN-of-lead-tin-antimony, The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? But my point about blending your own alloy is not just cost, it is the flexibility of being able to blend any alloy from any scrap lead source, anytime. Your campfire's going to need some help, and your soup can may not fare so well. With lead, the old timers just started pouring and figured that the first few rounds of bullets would be junk, but they'd warm the mold up enough for it to work well. The energy of a bullet after it leaves the barrel is directly related to its mass. It is not "pure lead", but for bullet casting purposes it can be considered to be "pure" inasmuch as the small amounts of metallic elements present will not effect the casting of bullets. Enter Our Dog Days of Summer BBQ Giveaway Now! Edit: This kind of stuff interests me, so I kinda yammered on a bit more than you probably wanted. Jeez, the mould itself is older than I am, and I'm 63! In fact, some of the lead alloys being used are very nearly as hard as pure silver. But that is true only if the linotype is a true 4/12 and the lead is pure. Come join the discussion about optics, makes, models, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! I often blend 12% and it does not take disproportionately longer than weaker mixes. I use linotype in my match bullets and pay over $1 per pound. That about the hardness I was hoping for. You don't need to worry too much about the content of scrap. It does nothing useful for bullets and is not needed. Everyone who's ever used a thermometer knows that things expand when heated and shrink when cooled. Forum, Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. So is plumber's lead considered pure lead? Lead is a very soft metal, and has a BHN of 5, silver is much harder, with a BHN of 24.5. Won't know until it warms up this spring since all the work will be done in an unheated garage. More importantly, when a gun is fired a pressure wave slams into the bullet, deforming its base and sealing it against the bore. As you say, it will dissolve in lead at half its own melting temp. of linotype left, so I don't think I'll run soon. My point about cost was that you can blend it for the same cost or less.

Density is critical to bullet performance. For proper performance, a silver bullet needs to be cast to higher tolerances than lead. I have quite a bit of Linotype that a printer friend gave me and it is harder than the WW lead that I have. Dicko wrote: billwnr wrote: I would think this is a waste of good linotype and pure lead. I had long wondered about the apparent love affair with wheelweights. Your post begs the question: Why? 2 to 1 ratio will give you 4%. Now its plumbers lead and superhard alloy for me. While lead may be soft, many of the alloys commonly used are considerably harder. were wieghing out around 450 gr. BTW, Tamarack lube worked well for me, but it's smoky. A silver bullet is going to take a lot more force, which may break the reloading press. In order to fire safely in an unmodified gun, and engage the riflings properly, a silver bullet needs to be fit to a much higher precision than a lead bullet. Silver probably won't make a great choice for small-caliber pistols with lower chamber pressures, but for large-caliber hunting rifles this pressure is easily obtainable. I use 7 ingots of WW and 3 ingots of LT.. Works well for me. Thanks for the advice on the lube. Dicko wrote: Wheelweights are a good and convenient material but it is not a good idea to rely on them or their content. That's not a very good formula but that is what I do! Meeting that standard is exactly my point. You can melt lead in an old soup can over a camp fire. What we think of as linotype is 4% tin 12% antimony. I have two bars of lynotype and a couple of hundred pounds of fluxed wheel weight ingots from years ago when I was making shot on a Littleton shot maker. http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm. Three pounds of pure lead for each pound of linotypeshould make a real nice alloy. I used linotype for several decades because I was in the printing business from 1972 onwards. Whatever they make (used to make) wheel weights out of. Hence we have gotten used to working with all kinds of lead scrap. Of course the only result is that you'll get damn hard bullets which is OK. I would also use them if I could get them for nothing but they are not free in South Africa, they cost the same as all scrap lead, about 50 US cents a pound. Both have higher resale values than wheel weights. I have ~100# of linotype that came out of an old printing plant.

A bullet is expected to deform in response to pressure a couple of times. I found that straight linotype would splatter on a metal target using my rcbs kieth 250gr GC. The Cast Bullet Association is an organization of shooters who enjoy shooting cast lead bullets in rifles and handguns for competition, hunting, or informal target shooting. When a metal is plasticly deformed (molded like play dough), it tends to "rebound" a bit. The CBA is a international organization of shooters who enjoy casting and shooting lead alloy bullets for competition, hunting, experimenting, and casual shooting. I have linotype and plumbers lead laying around for a rainy day. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, Second Media Corp., 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. There are calculations showing the minimum pressure needed to properly obturate a bullet of a given hardness, and silver needs about 35,00 psi (242,000 kilopascals). Why Choose Us? Linotype is getting scarce because it is obsolete in the printing trade. This has required that many of us hobby shooters work a little harder at alternative lead sources.Sure, as long as its hard enough for the job and consistent lot to lot. But the problem with that is, weak solutions form easily (up to about 4%) As you work toward strongersolutions,it takes a lot longer for this to occur. You can ignore tin in your calcs. However, that's a lot of money -- I'm going to try to accomplish the same thing by casting the bullet to the right size (or really, really close), and eliminiating the need for the resizing die to do much of anything.

As said above I just cut in pure lead until bullets drop out of the mold at the advertised weight (a pure Linotype bullet is light). So why is hardness a problem? I consider that too soft but then I consider wheelweights too soft. The old Lyman #457125HP (hollow point). You can't beat simple lube for it's simplicity. Silver, on the other hand, melts at a scorching 1761F. Perhaps I enjoy the use of WW alloy because I can tailor the loads to the alloy and am not depending upon someone else to make a hard bullet that I can not screw up by poorpowder or pressure selections. Before you can pour metal in a mold, you have to melt it. Learn from CBA members that have been casting their entire life. I have about 50lbs. I can do that anytime. Since silver's melting point is much higher, the mold needs to be considerably hotter. With a silver bullet, the riflings are going to be a little harder to engrave, and the bullet isn't going to deform as easiy. Can't tell you the Brinell hardness, but I used a mixture of one pound of Lino to two pounds of WW for many years for my high velocity magnum pistol loads, Up to 1500 FPS. But the best approach is to use it when you can get it but be prepared to use other forms of lead when you need to. If I wanted it easy I would just buy the bullets. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! I prefer not to work with the temperatures required to melt Antimony (1149 F) because of the toxic exposure to antimony and lead fumes. Twenty years ago their scrap value was 6 US cents a pound, so I could get them from gas stations for that price. Unless your wheelweights are different from ours, they are not hard enough for decent handgun bullets and certainly too soft for rifle. Like wheel weights with an extra pinch of tin. as cast, hardness tested 18 BHN.

Make sense? During the last several years, the available linotype seems to be getting harder to find. A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. It gets cheaper with freewheelweights. Us cheapos try to get lino for no more than $1.25 per pound, preferrably $1. There are a number of problems that can occur when pouring hot metal into a cold mold. I am perfectly happy to keep using WW type alloys and then when a harder alloy is required, I can heat treat to reach max hardness and anneal to bring that hardness back down to whatever is needed. That can safely be ignored and in any case if ignored it will simply increase bullet hardness slightly which can only be good.

I am fortunate to have collected various lead and alloys over the years. View Full Version : How to soften linotype lead. I have run into softer ones. Break out the hot-pads grandma, she's getting warm. All that is required is a known temperature in the oven, a consistanttemperature in that oven and attention to the time.I'd find the extra operation of heat treatment too much bother, but if you can get the required hardness from free wheelweights, it makes sense. A silver bullet might not be so accomodating, so we need to absolutely sure they don't exceed the bore diameter. For WW equivilent, 3-to-1 lead to lino should be about right. Check here for other mixes. A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. But I dunno why you think it gets more difficult at percentages higher than 4%. Silver rebounds more than lead, in fact quite a bit more. It is the presence of thezinc that adversely affects the casting quality of the alloy. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" The Apostle Paul in Romans 1:22. You can safely assume that wheelweights contain 3% antimony. There is controversy over the BHN results it produces but it does basic math for you in calculating percentages of compounds perfectly and a lot faster that I can on paper. The appeal of using ww alloy isgrowing dim but not because of the weak amount of antimony. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. As a very rough rule of thumb, the mold should be at least a third of the molten material's temperature to perform well. Its high melting point requires better furnaces and technique than is needed for lead. I used to cast a lot of 500 grain bullets for my 1886 Winchester. So, old coins are out, we're working with pure silver! Because there was enough linotype lead around me I always casted rifle bullets out of 100% pure lino, handgun bullets out of 50% lino and 50% pure lead. It is the presence of thezinc that adversely affects the casting quality of the alloy. Search on the CBA alloy calculator. But it does take some time. Wheelweights are still available locally for free at local gas stations. I just got a new electronic scale and had some new cast 500 gr 459 cal, so I started wieghing some of my handy work. Nevertheless, if you add enough "plumbers lead" to your Linotype, it will result in a softer alloythat is the only way to soften it. I don't use it in my BPC rifles preferring instead a 25-1, lead/tin alloy. If I manage to overcome the casting difficulties, it should be possible to get ballistic performance on par with hard lead bullets. I see that one reply mentions monotype. Its a spreadsheet that will let you plug in the values of weight for specific metals/alloys and will show percentages. Made some bullets from them but the consistency wasnt good. And they are not available except in small quantities and sporadically at that. I use linotype in my match bullets and pay over $1 per pound. Duane Mellenbruch Topeka, KS Good shooting' to y'all. By the way, these hardness numbers do dispell one common silver bullet myth. I have found the average antimony content accross the board to be about 1%. From input in talking to others that cast their own, Lymans cast data, and other forums, I am going to try 25% linotype and 75% COWW. The riflings also etch into the bullet, and begin rotating it. I also use it in all my smokeless powder rifles with gas checked bullets. The appeal of using ww alloy isgrowing dim but not because of the weak amount of antimony. In South Africa scrap lead costs 50 cents/lb.

I can't guarantee exact uniformity batch to batch but I get very close, within half a grain bullet weight, and I can get closer with some extra work. As long as the bullet is sufficiently hard to handle the pressures, I care little about the excessive hardness of the alloy. Straight WW seemed to lead a bit.

And for a long time blended one part linotype with 3 parts WW which was fine for my revolver shooting, and light to moderate loads in center fire rifles like the 30-06. During the last several years, the available linotype seems to be getting harder to find. The Association's central purpose is to help shooters enjoy casting bullets, You must enable JavaScript to be able to use this site in full, Welcome to The Cast Bullet Association Forum, TC Contenders & Other Single Shot Handguns, Wanted to trade items for Lyman lubesizer, How to keep zeroed while shooting the CBA score match. One has to hunt for lino and pure lead and when found it's not free. The home made lube known as "Felix Lube" on cast Boolits seems to be great, but I was never willing to go to through the hassle of making it. Any ideas. I thought wheel weights were generally a little harder than lino? I would think this is a waste of good linotype and pure lead. I think I answered it accurately but let me comment further on wheelweights and linotype. I fully understand the appeal of a material that is readily available and free. Silver coins and old jewelry are too hard, but pure silver (bullion) isn't much harder than commonly used bullets, and should work nicely. I suggest 50/50 which will give you 6%. The one we're interested in is "Resistance of metal to plastic deformation".

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