didnt think I was going to leav

2021/05/21

You didnt think I was going to leave it at that , did you? The waterproofing integrity of this membrane relies on a even thickness of material applied uniformly across the entire surface of the shower. But hubby noticed and we freaked out because putting holes in the liner, especially on the inside of the curb, we had been told by many folks is a total no-no. It makes some sense that vinyl floor planks could be used to create a waterproof shower wall, however I think it would be naive to assume that there was no risk to this install. One question I had for you based on this article is that you mentioned that you would not use DensShield as is as your water proofing membrane layer on the wall. As I said before, you should always talk to your local building authority about this because you can get the very best advice online and it could still be wrong according to your local code. This type of membrane requires at least 2 applications for it to have the proper thickness for shower waterproofing. Hi steve Foam shower bases (or shower pans) are sold separately or as part of a shower kit that contains several shower waterproofing components. There is a lot more that I could say on the subject, but I will leave it at that for now. Top subscription boxes right to your door, 1996-2022, Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates. I was advised to remove the floor tiles (still in good condition, except for two cracked tiles) and replace the waterproof membrane underneath. I understand your dilemma. I included these foam backer board products in my shower membrane post because they are the only waterproof wall boards that are designed to serve as tile backer boards. First of all, NEVER use standard gypsum wallboard on the curb or walls of your shower. Corian can be installed over most existing surfaces using regular silicon as an adhesive, according to their instructions. I do have a couple of questions concerning my shower remodel. I live in a townhome and this wall separates me from my neighbor. You may think that a small amount of water vapor here might be OK because theres a waterproofing membrane protecting the wall from moisture penetration, but it kind of defeats the purpose of using a product like corrugated roofing (unless you are saving a bunch of money). As I mentioned in my response to a previous comment, I do not recommend installing two different waterproofing membranes over each other. Just make sure you are applying the joint sealant to the mud extension after the Kerdi has been applied and the thinset has set. Its more likely that you have a traditional mortar base with a rubber membrane beneath. Your explanation is much appreciated! My partner and I are renovating/restoring an old house/mortuary. Since you are installing glass matt board, I would pre-seal the bottom of the exposed gypsum end with a bonding agent like Weldbond (diluted) so the sealant adheres to it. and if this flimsy seal breaches, liquid water will enter this space. Each of these products have some similarities and some important variations that I will go over in detail. Were skilled DIYers, but this is our first bathroom reno. Im thinking to cover the ENTIRE floor and walls with Kurdy including sealing all joints, corners and wall to floor transitions. Does aluminum rust? ProBase is unique among its competitors because it has a fleece covered membrane bonded to its surface. These are things I have also considered many times in order to save a bit of money for the client, but still maintain the integrity of the entire assembly. Thank you again for timely response. Steve Gehrmann is a remodeling contractor (SKG Renovations) as well as a partner in Redblock Industries. You mentioned this is a no-no for the foam shower basesis that because the tiles could compress into the foam even after the mortar sets? Of course there are many different waterproofing techniques and materials that you may be considering so I will also be providing my perspective on a few of these that I feel are important. Can this too be wrapped up the one wedi wall. Regardless of what the Durock rep claims, it seems sketchy to me. Thank you. If I was you I would rip out and start anew! Greatly appreciate it!

This is a terrible scenario in the long term. The Durock should be mounted on the stud surface, about 1/8 above where the tub flange is attached. I dont really have a favorite brand but I have used several of the Mapei mortars and Schluter All-Set. Hand slope a mortar pan (I want to use the Flo fx drain flange) (ok for the mortar bed to contact the wall backer (which goes down to the slab) right?) How is this code accommodated with a curbless entry? 1) I had a look in the TCNA, and it says to over lap the tub lip with the tile backer board minus 1/4 from the tub surround, from your experience is this correct? After about of week of research (your article being very helpful) I think Im ready to purchase one.

Honestly, Im wondering why you tested the membranes adhesion after the mortar was dry. Coverage is well over 95% as all the peaks are collapsed smooth as silk. Its not a huge issue but as I say in my post, sheet membranes are more reliable and less prone to install error in my opinion. Just like ordinary tile backer boards, they can serve as a structural, dimensionally stable and load bearing substrate for tile as well as a waterproofing shower membrane. I saw the comment/response about prefab shower bases, that you didnt recommend a moisture barrier underneath. Thanks for your comment. article was incredibly well written and thorough. Do you have concerns about the integrity of the GoBoard wall panel system? As much as I love the time savings all of these bases offer, I am not at all comfortable with the bare foam bases, for a couple of reasons. I like how narrow and tall it is, but it will be on an outside wall. You can create a seal between the membrane and your shower base by applying a silicon bead on the tiling flange and pressing the bottom of the membrane against it. The wall boards come in various thicknesses to allow you to use them as building panels as well as backer boards. This was a grossly mistaken assumption, but fairly common during that period. , To answer your question. In my opinion, even with adequate insulation theres not enough distance from the shower wall to the outside wall to allow the vapor to dissipate & prevent condensation (when using a liquid membrane). I will explain the different types of shower waterproofing methods available, which ones I prefer and why. In this post Ill show you 19 solid shower tile installation strategies I have learned over the years to increase my tiling efficiency and quality.Read More 19 Pro Tips on Shower Tile Installation. Will it hurt or compromise the Kerdi? Thanks for your comment! Hydro Ban Sheet Membrane has a .06 perm rating which is extremely good.

The difference is that this membrane has an exceptionally low .05 perm rating according to the manufacturer. It makes a somewhat daunting task seem possible. They now have an integrated waterproofing membrane laminated to the top surface. Hydro Ban liquid membrane is generally a good waterproofing membrane.

The bottom line is, the lower the perm rating, the less moisture will get through the membrane. Do I have to put down a waterproofing membrane over the top of the foam base? roll shower waterproofing handicapped kit premium bathrooms It is easy to see how shower nooks and niches could be the cause of major water infiltration issues in the showers of the past, when they still cause problems in some shower today. You dont want to take any chances. Prior to this technology, the shower base was an engineering nightmare. waterproofing shower durock membrane sqft roll system Once I have moved the drain I assume I need to refill and pour new concrete in the area where I removed the concrete. This means mold growth and other problems. In my opinion, liquid membrane without fiberglass reinforcing tape is a bad idea no matter which board you choose. Steve. What would your recommendation be for this application? Any advice? Wonderful article, so very informative! There are basically four main types of shower wall and floor membranes: Sheet and liquid membranes, as well as the newer foam wall boards, foam shower bases and foam shower niches (in the foam wall boards category). We are building two 4 enclosure walls that are 7 for 2 the descends to 4 over the next 2. I am converting a tub to a shower. (Make note of the pan to wall transition). Any suggestions concerns with my madness? Im so sorry I did not respond earlier. I know Im trying to get a little creative to be cost effective and use the leftover product I have. However, I did notice that it is not recommended for installation in steam showers because it has a perm rating of < 1 perm". To start with, you definitely need to fill the gaps behind the shower panels with spray foam because moisture will surely be condensing in this space. All liquid waterproofing membranes are applied either with a brush and roller that would be used for painting, or sprayed on with a paint sprayer. Before we get into the details of each type of waterproofing membrane, I will try to explain what uncoupling is all about. Its much appreciated. Thank you. Given your extensive knowledge, I wonder if you are able to comment on the effectiveness of a clear waterproofing membrane over (rather than underneath) shower tiles. Its a great idea to apply the Kerdi membrane (or Wedi Subliner Dry) to your mud pan extension but you dont need to wrap it up the wall. Im wondering if I can use redgard liquid membrane on the drywall AND a waterproof decoupling sheet on top of that. I would recommend against using anything other than sheet or liquid waterproofing membranes designed for shower waterproofing. The new problem is that this old system is incompatible with new shower waterproofing membrane systems and can cause major problems with condensation in your outside shower wall. You must allow 12 hours to cure before flood testing. This is not a standard practice because these assemblies are designed to last for many years without worry. You would need to buy a roll of sheet membrane seam tape and the adhesive joint sealant to attach it. Personally, I would not use a product that has a perm rating greater than .5 perms. Yes, I am calling the foam shower base revolutionary because of all the major problems that it solves in the modern shower. Wed like to remove the drop and raise it, so the bathroom ceiling is all the same height.

Im getting the impression that you really dont want to take out that old shower pan. Thanks! The best way to answer your questions is to refer you to a great video from Schluter Systems. Not many people understand the term, or the purpose of uncoupling the tile assembly from the backer board and I cant really blame them. On the back and inside I was going to build out the wall 1/4 so the durock could go over the flange. A good way to limit this problem is to apply a bonding agent to the surface of your cementitious backer board before applying the liquid waterproofing membrane. This creates a tiny gap at the base of the fleece on each side of the membrane sheet. This is a great web site, Im glad I found before getting any further along with my project. Time is of the essence . A preformed foam shower niche can be a used as a great defence against long term leak issues into the shower wall, but they will never entirely eliminate moisture from moving into the stud space (see my discussion of perm ratings). Any types of tile to stay away from? The Durock pre-sloped foam shower trays are part of their shower system which includes the waterproofing membrane, pre-formed corners, pipe and valve seals and foam shower curb. Since tile, grout and mortar was never designed to be waterproof, a significant amount of moisture always made it into and around the mortar base, pooling at the liner. Now, no significant moisture makes it into the base material so there is no concern about rotting and molding of the mortar as well as the continuous expansion and contraction of the baseassembly. Unlike other premixed grout, this stuff dries hard as a rock and is water sealed. I have some leftover Durock Tile Membrane (two or more rolls) from a couple of projects. I realize that you are a mason and not a tile setter, but as a business owner I believe they would grant you a trade account. If I were wanting to install a prefab shower base (Delta, Kohler) is there an underlayment that should be put below the shower base? Do you like the durock to sit on or over the flange? Used recommend trowel and everything. I was wondering if I can use blueskin membranes for my shower tiling project ? Kerdi DS was engineered for the harsh environments of steam showers. I would also suggest that you install a cement coated prefab foam shower pan but if you really want to install your own mortar pan, heres another good video. Your main goal will be to isolate, insulate, and ventilate the shower area as much as possible to keep the moisture from reaching and condensing on the many metal and glass surfaces in the bus. I would also make sure the corners and joints are taped. Although its uncommon, the concept of using an epoxy based bonding method for tile also seems fine to me and Ive not heard anything that would suggest otherwise. Waterproofing is our main concern and would like to get it right! I currently have a drywalled shower/tub surround awaiting tiles. Good luck with your shower remodel project! Ive never used it but Ive heard that its great for DIYers. Like the others, Durock also makes a line of polystyrene shower products, including shower bases, curbs, benches, ramps, tile backer board, building panels but no foam shower niches. After I was finished reading it, being a DIY, I knew what was the best choice for me for waterproofing my new basement shower. Its always nice to see a detail oriented DIYer doing their homework and trying to do it right. Very grateful! Maybe I just missed it, but every company that makes a waterproofing membrane should make these ratings very clear in their specs and promo materials. I should make it clear that there is no such thing as perfect shower seal or perfect waterproofing for your shower. Some of liquid membrane manufacturers claim that they can also serve as a crack isolation membrane if they are applied a little thicker. Im not really sure what product youre referring to but the USG Durock sheet waterproofing membrane that Im aware of is attached to the substrate with unmodified thin set mortar. In warm dry weather it can dry very quickly but may take up to several hours between coats and again before tile can be applied over it. In other words, I believe that you have nothing at all to worry about.

I suggested that we just go ahead and roll all the walls, and he said that its not necessary b/c the warranty on DensShield doesnt require additional waterproofing. ft. - Waterproofing Tile or Stone Flooring Bathroom, Shower, Sauna, Steam Room Floor Water Proof & Crack Isolation Snap Products, 4 Pieces Inside Waterproofing Corners Shower Seamless Membrane Corner Polyethylene Corner for Bathtub and Steam Room, Outside Waterproofing Corner Shower Seamless Membrane Corner Polyethylene Corner for Bathtub and Steam Room,4 Pieces (4 Pieces), 2 Pack Inside Waterproofing Corner Shower Seamless Membrane Corner Polyethylene Corner for Bathtub and Steam Room (Inside), Waterproofing Seal with Gasket 3/4 Inch Opening for Walk in Shower Between Tiles and Concrete 3/4 Inch Pipe Seal for Retilling Bathroom Shower Valve and Shower Head, Waterproofing Membrane Roll, 30Mils Thick, 5Inch X 98.5Ft Tile Floor Underlayment Waterproofing Polyethylene Fabric Waterproof Membrane for Tiles, Shower Walls, Bathroom Floors, Schluter Kerdi-Shower Kit 38" x 60", Offset ABS Flange, LLPT Waterproofing Membrane Anti-Fracture Fiberglass Fabric Tape 6 Inch x 82 Feet Water Barrier Tape Roll for Tile Wall Bathroom Shower Pan Curb Seam Niche Floor Crack (FWR150), Schluter Systems Kerdi KERECK 4x Inside, 2x Outside Preformed Seamless Corners and Band KEBA 100/125/5M Polyethylene Waterproofing Membrane Strip 4 mil, RAIN GUARD PRO - Micro-Seal - Penetrating Water Repellent Protection for All Porous Wood and Masonry Surfaces - Pro Grade Silane/Siloxane Waterproof Coating - Natural Finish - Ready to Use - 1 Gallon, BXGTECH Waterproof Membrane 24 Mil Thick 3.2 FT x 32.5 FT Shower Membrane, Waterproofing Fabric for Bathroom, Sauna and Steam Room, Shower Walls Waterproofing Membrane108 SQFT , 2-Pack Hipple Home Frameless Shower Door Bottom Seal Strip for (3/8" x 39") Glass - Shower Door Sweep for The Bottom of Glass Door, Waterproofing Membrane Sheet 36 in x 80 ft (240 sq ft), Repa Market 'Hidrotape T' 3" to 4" Waterproofing sleeve - pipe seal - pipe wrap - Waterproofing Material For Shower/Bathroom/Drain pipes - Fabric Base With Rubber Polymer guard, Schluter Kerdi-Shower Kit 38" x 60", ABS Flange (1), Henkel 908570 2.7 oz Tub Clear Silicone Waterproof Sealant, Single Tube, Schluter Kerdi 323 Sq. Good luck with your investigation, and your project! You mortar or stick these pieces in place similar to the membrane application. This was considered a water in / water out system. You also have the option to build a new stud wall in front of the firewall if the drywall is too thick (I have seen a firewall with two layers of 1 drywall!). You might have to visit a tile supplier/ wholesaler for some of the less common brands. In other words, this would be another really bad idea. The wall boards are made from extruded polystyrene foam and have a layer of material on both sides designed for tile mortar bonding. Im sorry I couldnt be of more help. The shower bases are formed from the same foam material as the wall boards, some having a mortar bonding layer on their surface and some not (more on the this in the Foam Shower Wall Panels, Bases & Shower Niches section below). If the worst case scenario happens and your shower base cracks and leaks, it will likely be a slow leak that you will identify soon enough. There are a lot of burdensome conditions on most of these warrantees. I would not recommend overlapping liquid/sheet membranes but if you need to for some reason, always install sheet membrane over liquid. Although it is important to severely limit moisture from making it into the wall, this two layer approach allows the moisture to be trapped between these two layers and condense on the plastic layer beneath. I really hope that helps, and good luck with your project! You should probably inquire with the manufacturer of your panels to see if they have a better attachment method than the Australian one does. My question is, is it okay to mix and match these various membrane waterproofing systems? I suppose you could apply a sheet waterproofing membrane over it, but this would just amount to a bunch of extra work for no additional benefit. Yes, I would suggest that you should indeed apply two complete coats of RedGard in order to establish an adequate perm rating. The perimeter of the drain will still not be protected from moisture infiltration because it was never designed to do this. Most manufacturers are encouraging their use for quick and easy shower bench construction as well as waterproof partition walls, tub decks, etc. Im not sure what the people at Fine Homebuilding were thinking but applying a sheet membrane over the tile would be a bad idea for the reasons mentioned in my post. Liquid membranes can be problematic if not applied perfectly. The two step drain that must be installed with a traditional shower pan is not compatible with a surface sheet membrane because there is no membrane bonding flange on these drains. Just Google dry pack shower base. Heres how to do it correctly First drill a few holes around the perimeter of the new hole that you created so you can insert rebar for support. I prefer to use Wedi Subliner, Durock sheet membrane, NobleSeal TS, or Kerdi DS, because they have the lowest perm ratings. The Kerdi seams are supposed to be covered with Kerdi Band and the corners with Kerdi Kereck. Alternatively, could I just fill the hole in the concrete with gravel and put a sheet of plywood down before putting down the shower pan? waterproofing membrane shower durock band usg roll system waterproof pan bathroom brand tile sheet Good luck and have fun with your project! I applaud your innovation. Just a thought. No need to worry about sheet membrane corner waterproofing of your shower niches! I would then open up the other side of the valve wall and rent a drying fan to thoroughly dry the stud cavity (only warm air, not hot). I can stay hydrated for years and it will only become stronger. I removed all the wall tiles and cement board down to the joists and am planning on installing plywood followed by Kerdi waterproofing membrane and tiles. Also, is it 2 to top of waterproofing of curb structure or to top of 3/4 thick marble threshold which will have 100% silicone bead to NobleSeal TS on curb? I have gone over the various types of shower waterproofing membranes above. Now for the Master Bath I have multiple sheets of the duraock left over and plenty of red guard (purchased the 3.5g bucket). This movement can occur at the margins between two adjoining backer board panels, or most often in the corners where the wall meets the floor, and where the back wall meets the side walls. If its a shower that youre building, I would recommend that you waterproof it identical to a regular home shower. I would also attach your 3/4 ply with screws and again construction adhesive applied to the top of every joist. The bottom line is. No matter how good your membrane is or which board you choose, a wood framed bench will absorb a tiny bit of water vapour and expand / contract with changes in temperature. Once the first coat has dried, a second coating of undiluted RedGard is required. The tile/ tub margin is then sealed with regular silicon after grouting. Thank you. With the membrane, and without the membrane. Secondly, I cant seem to get my hands on a Wedi or Hydro-Blok shower base. Personally, I would use the Wedi approach for the corners. ), but theyre a bit harder to find. I used regular Durock, sealed the seams with tape/mortar, and 2 coats of red guard (3 on the screws and seams).

Sorry Im a novice here and appreciate the info. Normally with a vapor barrier you want to keep the integrity. Therefore Im planning on installing a mortar shower base. We will remove the existing tub/shower combo from the 80s, and plan to replace it with a walk in shower. This process seems time-consuming and costly. It has never leaked and when I exposed the liner coming up the wall it looks and feels fine, was dry and no mold. If this could be done it would save me a lot of work. Most shower waterproofing membranes fall into Class II but some end up in Class III as well. 4. A simple rule to use is to remove the vapor barrier plastic from the stud face in all areas where your undertile waterproofing membrane will be applied. It is also engineered so it can be used on both shower walls and shower bases. Wedi has a whole range of foam shower bases, backer board panels, benches, niches and thicker building panels. I suppose it would just need to be something that the adhesive will stick to. Grout sealer is certainly not going to take the place of a waterproofing membrane, especially if there are shower niches installed. I would say that an acrylic/ fiberglass shower system does not require any additional waterproofing but a plastic shower kit could mean a lot of things. A crack isolation membrane is basically just a thicker and heftier version of a waterproofing membrane that can stretch horizontally sometimes as much as 1/8. In this case I would generally recommend one of the sheet membranes with the higher perm ratings. 3) I am planning on fully filled closed cell spray foam in all walls and ceiling but this is also a vapor barrier. Noble also has a selection of foam shower niches and benches. Its also engineered for shower walls and floors. If so, how does one interface the sheet and liquid membranes? Could one use a liquid membrane over seams instead of tape? The under tile waterproofing with the integrated membrane bonding drain assembly is the key to this system. And if by some small chance you do have an undertile membrane, it was obviously installed improperly and will be impossible to repair just by removing the shower base tiles. 1) What would you recommend for water proofing, so that we can use the same product on both walls. I need to break up and remove the concrete to move the drain. I cant imagine anyone installing the Durock base without a membrane because you could not attach your tiles to it it would be a total disaster. It comes down to a judgement call by your local building inspector so it always helps to discuss your options with them so they recognize that you are trying to do it right and not trying to get away with something sketchy. It is also more likely that there is no waterproofing membrane under your shower base tile. They all belong to larger classification of Vapor Retarders. You can see the technique Im suggesting in this Wedi sponsored video. That would mean starting out with a good tile backer board. You might be wondering, Is shower membrane waterproofing a new thing? and Why did the industry decide to abandon the old-school strategies?. Well plan to glue them up with silicone adhesive/caulk (it will be something like this https://pressedtinpanels.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/PTP-Bathroom-wet-area-installation-guide-2019-PRINT-05-2020.pdf though this is not the company were using because we dont live in Australia).

This is not a waterproofing membrane because there is no such thing, but a good sealer will limit moisture transmission into the base and walls. You didnt mention if you tried a modified mortar after you tried the unmodified. My initial assumption would be to tape the seam and red guard it, but it seems like your not a fan of mixing products/brands. I do not think this is adequate, but I am not an industry expert or a contractor myself. The tiler came in and put screws on the top of the curb and the inside side of the curb in order to secure the cement board on top of the liner . Very informative. Suited for interior and exterior substrates, RedGard creates a continuous waterproof membrane barrier with outstanding adhesion and reduces crack transmission in tile and stone floors. Follow the manufacturers directions and make sure all the joints and corners are sealed with the proper membrane components. Any suggestions on a method to use as there will obviously be an air gap between the metal and the walls/curved ceiling? I was thinking of doing this, but I do not think I will. There is no need to pre-slope the subfloor or install a rubber or metal shower pan liner to the subfloor with this system. This is the cheapest and easiest way to waterproof your shower walls and shower floor and it does provide good protection in most cases if applied correctly.